Griffin has experience with survival, but she doesn't have experience with this kind of survival. What it means to be superhuman and the weight that comes with the decision to use your powers. [ Neither does he, honestly, not without artificial means. ] We have basic amenities covered. No one is currently starving - but we don't have answers. Morningstar has enemies that we haven't inherited - yet. We will if we continue to assist them, that's not just a paranoid assumption, that's certainty. Unless the UNA themselves are responsible for us, which has a different danger altogether.
We aren't in danger now, but we're in potential danger. Why is being prepared for that wrong?
[ He's trying to puzzle this out as he talked, figure out where he went wrong. If he's wrong. ]
My team was scarcely thirty people at its largest. But we had all of this handled. We came from all walks of life - different countries, different planets, different timelines - and we handled all of this. We had specialized groups for tasks. Different squads to handle different problems as they came up. What those of us who didn't fight didn't do, we delegated to other people. We kept the machine running. And it was voluntary. There was no demand to be there. Being a hero has more to do with than just powers, I never had any and I was still one, and everything to do with wanting to protect...
[ your friends. the world. he doesn't know how to finish that sentence, so he just doesn't. ]
But here, with almost twice that number, we're a disorganized mess as a group. If you don't want to call us a people, then don't - whatever you want to call us, we're not working together, and to say that it's because we've got different origins and priorities is ignorant at best and selfish at worse. That's saying you can't work with someone for something arbitrary and you won't make the effort to try - and coming from me that should say something. Morningstar is an organization that's going to have its own set of needs and priorities altogether and existed beyond us, meaning you're signing on to something beyond you and wearing that name and label. Regardless of what they might be doing where you can't see.
[ He's been that unseen hand in the dark. Deftly taking lives before they have the chance to become threats. Razing cities to the ground for the benefit of another's bottom line. He's watched rebellions tear countries to pieces as both sides forgot the people standing between them, crushing them like grass underfoot.
He doesn't want that. ]
Griffin is right that we need to come up with basic code of conduct, but what is the point if doing that if we're not anything more than people who share a stupid origin story? There are things people aren't going to agree on - killing or not killing is going to be a sticking point. If they're put in a position to kill or be killed, is the death going to take precedence over circumstances? I advocated for cutting potential risks off if they're murderers without knowing the context for why they did it - that was clearly wrong, that was made clear. But if I'm put in the same situation and I kill to protect myself or someone else, am I going to be tossed out for not finding a way to shake hands and walk off? If there's a code of conduct, who the hell is going to be enforcing it? If Griffin does, then my experiences and concerns are going to be worthless because they'll be dismissed because they don't match with hers. How are we going to deal with people who break it? Kill them? Strip their network access and hope they don't run to our enemies? We have no structure in place, we have no understanding, and coming up with a pretty little list of rules is only going to alienate the people who want nothing to do with them or the people spouting them. If we're not connected to each other then we have no reason to obey but fear of being thrown out, and that fear will only lead to paranoia.
[ A pause, a breath. ]
There's no trust or loyalty there, just minding the damn lines, and it sure as hell doesn't build trust to feel like you're one bad move from being thrown out. It makes you pissed off and resentful of a power structure you had nothing to do with creating and no power to influence. If you start out not falling neatly within this code, then you're already at a disadvantage that's difficult to recover from. That's how my father ran things, and Griffin is too much like my father for me to trust that she won't try to use laws and regulations things the same way he did. She has already shown herself to be vindictive and manipulative, all the while claiming to be doing it for the good of the people.
I'm not much better, but I'm willing to set my beliefs aside if it means gaining consensus and working on our problems. I know what I want and I think we need but that's not going to happen and what I presented to you and Markus isn't even what I want or what I think the best solution is for steering this godforsaken ship, I just don't think things are okay because I have a psycho who subconsciously wants to feed my siblings to her dog breathing down my neck and questions I don't even know how to begin answering, and gaps in security and weaknesses I see all over what we're doing. But bringing it up seems to damage the egos and sensibilities of every god damn person I thought was sensible, because all I heard was people fixating on word choices and deliberately missing my fucking point. They keep saying we band together well in an emergency - why are we so incapable of doing so outside of one? Why are we waiting for Gaby and El to spur us into action when we could be doing so ourselves?
[ He throws a hand up. ]
Our group is too unstable create isolated teams and groups. Could just say let them all burn and make my own, but there's guarantee that the whole team would still be there the next day. We'd lose work. We'd lose info. We'd lose progress and we can't afford that. People die, sure, but there are people to replace them - this is the contingency for that, involving everyone so we're not left up shit creek if we wake up and find half our number gone. So I either make this work, or we continue to flounder as a collective and waste valuable power and influence.
But I'm an asshole so everything I say falls on deaf ears.
[ there are a few moments of quiet following the closure of Damian's diatribe.
to say that he's retained the beginning now that he's made it to the end would be a lie. to say that he could accurately repeat all of Damian's points back to him in anything resembling their original form, much less a concise version, would be a lie. there's a sense of having agreed either directly or in a general, "not quite how I'd have put it or the angle I view this from but I see and largely agree with your point" kind of a way. but to which and to what and to attempt to place in mention of the need for pulling himself back from his fixation with Clarke and for putting himself into the shoes of others and for removing himself from the memory of how simple this was with the people from his universe and—
there are too many avenues and Stephen knows by now that when Damian asks for insight what he wants isn't guidance but a fact to align himself to, a yes or a no to take as a gospel, and it's bad to indulge that at the best of times, but now? when Stephen's wrung out and Damian's het up and everything is still so fresh that the smoke hasn't had a chance to clear, the dust to settle?
he's done more than his fair share of being irresponsible today.
besides, all that was a letting off of steam. let it stay as that. ]
I'll be honest, I'm at least 8 hours of sleep away from having a decent answer for you.
[ it's a joke, but he's not joking.
blessedly, he doesn't leave it there. ]
I think there's a difference between "right and wrong" and "useful and not useful". I don't think you're wrong for what you're thinking.
[ and "right", in this case, is a much more complicated issue. trying to scale anything back to that will kill the discussion dead. a brief pause to make sure he's not hit any tripwires and set the whole thing off - fortunately, his tone is calm and conversational, perhaps betraying a little of his mild exhaustion at the diplomacy they've had to try and act with today. a little camaraderie, a wink and a nudge at his own expense that he's only just managing to keep it up now.
a little lift at the corner of his mouth. it's funny, in its way, that this is likely the most rational he's been all day. too little too late, but what can you do? ]
Currently, it's tied up in a lot of feeling. [ source: you came in here about as close to on fire as you can get without actually being on fire. ] Which is fair enough. You've been hit with the brunt of a bad situation and there's a lot of frustration going around even without that. Letting it out is a good thing. [ in private spaces. here, for instance, as he's just done - maybe one day Stephen will thank him for retaining enough trust in him for that even after the day's mess. ] But until you've had some time to sift through it, what you're thinking may not be useful.
[ not talking about the individual thoughts. not even the larger concepts. it's the force behind them that's corrosive, damaging to his own functionality, the anger making it difficult to look beyond what is toward how to take that reality and form anew around it. to get anywhere with this, the majority of them are going to have to be the river, not the rocks of the riverbed. gently shifting the unmoving with their collective tide.
more importantly in Stephen's book: anger, upset and the umbrella of emotions they belong to just aren't a pleasant place to be. they'll hurt him more than they'll help him. until he can separate those feelings out from the issue at hand, he's going to find himself living in a very bad place for as long as he wants to be involved in moving things forward. ]
Right?
[ it's not a conversation closer. he's checking in, making sure he's not shoved his fingers into any raw bruises while trying to apply a few salves. ]
Edited (tagging at 4am is not the one) Date: 2019-05-07 03:13 am (UTC)
[ a moment to digest what Stephen's saying. It's not the answer he wanted, but Stephen has proven himself trustworthy. Stephen agrees with him - and even if he doesn't, Stephen doesn't lash out at him when he's in the wrong or frustrated. Stephen has taken the time to tease things apart for him, make it clear how to approach things.
Save for earlier. He hasn't forgotten. He never forgets.
He still doesn't think its fair. Any of this. He still thinks if someone else had taken this speech and said it, there would have been no backlash. The discussions would have gone smoother, that he is the factor in all of it going to hell.]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2019-05-06 03:20 pm (UTC)It doesn't make it better. But it at least makes him feel less like he's floundering on his own, trying to keep afloat.
He lets out a long, slow breath, and tilts his head back to look up at the ceiling. ]
Can I tell you what I'm thinking, and can you tell me if I'm wrong for thinking it?
no subject
Date: 2019-05-06 06:22 pm (UTC)Go ahead.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-07 01:30 am (UTC)Griffin has experience with survival, but she doesn't have experience with this kind of survival. What it means to be superhuman and the weight that comes with the decision to use your powers. [ Neither does he, honestly, not without artificial means. ] We have basic amenities covered. No one is currently starving - but we don't have answers. Morningstar has enemies that we haven't inherited - yet. We will if we continue to assist them, that's not just a paranoid assumption, that's certainty. Unless the UNA themselves are responsible for us, which has a different danger altogether.
We aren't in danger now, but we're in potential danger. Why is being prepared for that wrong?
[ He's trying to puzzle this out as he talked, figure out where he went wrong. If he's wrong. ]
My team was scarcely thirty people at its largest. But we had all of this handled. We came from all walks of life - different countries, different planets, different timelines - and we handled all of this. We had specialized groups for tasks. Different squads to handle different problems as they came up. What those of us who didn't fight didn't do, we delegated to other people. We kept the machine running. And it was voluntary. There was no demand to be there. Being a hero has more to do with than just powers, I never had any and I was still one, and everything to do with wanting to protect...
[ your friends. the world. he doesn't know how to finish that sentence, so he just doesn't. ]
But here, with almost twice that number, we're a disorganized mess as a group. If you don't want to call us a people, then don't - whatever you want to call us, we're not working together, and to say that it's because we've got different origins and priorities is ignorant at best and selfish at worse. That's saying you can't work with someone for something arbitrary and you won't make the effort to try - and coming from me that should say something. Morningstar is an organization that's going to have its own set of needs and priorities altogether and existed beyond us, meaning you're signing on to something beyond you and wearing that name and label. Regardless of what they might be doing where you can't see.
[ He's been that unseen hand in the dark. Deftly taking lives before they have the chance to become threats. Razing cities to the ground for the benefit of another's bottom line. He's watched rebellions tear countries to pieces as both sides forgot the people standing between them, crushing them like grass underfoot.
He doesn't want that. ]
Griffin is right that we need to come up with basic code of conduct, but what is the point if doing that if we're not anything more than people who share a stupid origin story? There are things people aren't going to agree on - killing or not killing is going to be a sticking point. If they're put in a position to kill or be killed, is the death going to take precedence over circumstances? I advocated for cutting potential risks off if they're murderers without knowing the context for why they did it - that was clearly wrong, that was made clear. But if I'm put in the same situation and I kill to protect myself or someone else, am I going to be tossed out for not finding a way to shake hands and walk off? If there's a code of conduct, who the hell is going to be enforcing it? If Griffin does, then my experiences and concerns are going to be worthless because they'll be dismissed because they don't match with hers. How are we going to deal with people who break it? Kill them? Strip their network access and hope they don't run to our enemies? We have no structure in place, we have no understanding, and coming up with a pretty little list of rules is only going to alienate the people who want nothing to do with them or the people spouting them. If we're not connected to each other then we have no reason to obey but fear of being thrown out, and that fear will only lead to paranoia.
[ A pause, a breath. ]
There's no trust or loyalty there, just minding the damn lines, and it sure as hell doesn't build trust to feel like you're one bad move from being thrown out. It makes you pissed off and resentful of a power structure you had nothing to do with creating and no power to influence. If you start out not falling neatly within this code, then you're already at a disadvantage that's difficult to recover from. That's how my father ran things, and Griffin is too much like my father for me to trust that she won't try to use laws and regulations things the same way he did. She has already shown herself to be vindictive and manipulative, all the while claiming to be doing it for the good of the people.
I'm not much better, but I'm willing to set my beliefs aside if it means gaining consensus and working on our problems. I know what I want and I think we need but that's not going to happen and what I presented to you and Markus isn't even what I want or what I think the best solution is for steering this godforsaken ship, I just don't think things are okay because I have a psycho who subconsciously wants to feed my siblings to her dog breathing down my neck and questions I don't even know how to begin answering, and gaps in security and weaknesses I see all over what we're doing. But bringing it up seems to damage the egos and sensibilities of every god damn person I thought was sensible, because all I heard was people fixating on word choices and deliberately missing my fucking point. They keep saying we band together well in an emergency - why are we so incapable of doing so outside of one? Why are we waiting for Gaby and El to spur us into action when we could be doing so ourselves?
[ He throws a hand up. ]
Our group is too unstable create isolated teams and groups. Could just say let them all burn and make my own, but there's guarantee that the whole team would still be there the next day. We'd lose work. We'd lose info. We'd lose progress and we can't afford that. People die, sure, but there are people to replace them - this is the contingency for that, involving everyone so we're not left up shit creek if we wake up and find half our number gone. So I either make this work, or we continue to flounder as a collective and waste valuable power and influence.
But I'm an asshole so everything I say falls on deaf ears.
1/2
Date: 2019-05-07 01:56 am (UTC)[
no subject
Date: 2019-05-07 03:00 am (UTC)to say that he's retained the beginning now that he's made it to the end would be a lie. to say that he could accurately repeat all of Damian's points back to him in anything resembling their original form, much less a concise version, would be a lie. there's a sense of having agreed either directly or in a general, "not quite how I'd have put it or the angle I view this from but I see and largely agree with your point" kind of a way. but to which and to what and to attempt to place in mention of the need for pulling himself back from his fixation with Clarke and for putting himself into the shoes of others and for removing himself from the memory of how simple this was with the people from his universe and—
there are too many avenues and Stephen knows by now that when Damian asks for insight what he wants isn't guidance but a fact to align himself to, a yes or a no to take as a gospel, and it's bad to indulge that at the best of times, but now? when Stephen's wrung out and Damian's het up and everything is still so fresh that the smoke hasn't had a chance to clear, the dust to settle?
he's done more than his fair share of being irresponsible today.
besides, all that was a letting off of steam. let it stay as that. ]
I'll be honest, I'm at least 8 hours of sleep away from having a decent answer for you.
[ it's a joke, but he's not joking.
blessedly, he doesn't leave it there. ]
I think there's a difference between "right and wrong" and "useful and not useful". I don't think you're wrong for what you're thinking.
[ and "right", in this case, is a much more complicated issue. trying to scale anything back to that will kill the discussion dead. a brief pause to make sure he's not hit any tripwires and set the whole thing off - fortunately, his tone is calm and conversational, perhaps betraying a little of his mild exhaustion at the diplomacy they've had to try and act with today. a little camaraderie, a wink and a nudge at his own expense that he's only just managing to keep it up now.
a little lift at the corner of his mouth. it's funny, in its way, that this is likely the most rational he's been all day. too little too late, but what can you do? ]
Currently, it's tied up in a lot of feeling. [ source: you came in here about as close to on fire as you can get without actually being on fire. ] Which is fair enough. You've been hit with the brunt of a bad situation and there's a lot of frustration going around even without that. Letting it out is a good thing. [ in private spaces. here, for instance, as he's just done - maybe one day Stephen will thank him for retaining enough trust in him for that even after the day's mess. ] But until you've had some time to sift through it, what you're thinking may not be useful.
[ not talking about the individual thoughts. not even the larger concepts. it's the force behind them that's corrosive, damaging to his own functionality, the anger making it difficult to look beyond what is toward how to take that reality and form anew around it. to get anywhere with this, the majority of them are going to have to be the river, not the rocks of the riverbed. gently shifting the unmoving with their collective tide.
more importantly in Stephen's book: anger, upset and the umbrella of emotions they belong to just aren't a pleasant place to be. they'll hurt him more than they'll help him. until he can separate those feelings out from the issue at hand, he's going to find himself living in a very bad place for as long as he wants to be involved in moving things forward. ]
Right?
[ it's not a conversation closer. he's checking in, making sure he's not shoved his fingers into any raw bruises while trying to apply a few salves. ]
no subject
Date: 2019-05-07 03:25 am (UTC)Save for earlier. He hasn't forgotten. He never forgets.
He still doesn't think its fair. Any of this. He still thinks if someone else had taken this speech and said it, there would have been no backlash. The discussions would have gone smoother, that he is the factor in all of it going to hell.]
... Right.
[ Slowly, the hands in his lap come unknotted. ]